For Utah House District 30. Former Member, Utah House of Representatives, 2016, 2015, 2012, 2011. Utah Architect, #utpol
Showing posts with label Utah Republican Party. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Utah Republican Party. Show all posts
Wednesday, April 3, 2019
Fred C Cox for the Utah Republican State Central Committee
I thought the certificate was pretty neat.
Being a member of the SCC is a volunteer, elected, political party position, representing Salt Lake County to the State Party. There are 180 members Statewide, representing tens of thousands of county delegates, 4 thousand state delegates, and hundreds of thousands of party affiliates. The meetings have been in St George during snow storms, Fillmore, Park City, Erda / Grantsville etc. I didn't get a certificate for 100% attendance for 2011 to 2015, even though I didn't miss then either. The meetings often take all day, and have as of late. been argumentative. Some are wondering why I would run again? It isn't just for the piece of paper, as I don't know if I will get another "award".
Someone has to stand up to defend a Constitutional Republican form of government that is not Socialist or we will lose it.
Past Party and Related Community Service
• Utah State House of Representatives, January 2015 through December 2016.
• Utah State House of Representatives, January 2011 through December 2012.
• Utah Republican State Central Committee, 2011 to present.
• Utah Republican State Executive Committee, 2017 to present.
• Utah Republican State Delegate 2002-2003, 2005 to 2012, 2013, 2015 to 2016, 2018 to 2020.
• Salt Lake County Republican Bylaws Committee, 2013 to present.
• Salt Lake County Republican Delegate, 2010-2012, 2014 to 2016.
• Salt Lake County Republican Central Committee, 2010-2012, 2014 to 2016.
• Salt Lake County Republican Legislative District Chair, August 2010 to January 2011.
How would you like to improve the Party?
There is too much fighting in the party. We need to protect the caucus convention system without driving people away.
Monday, April 2, 2018
60 vs 70 percent threashold Are we really going to debate this again
60/40 vs 70% threashold - are we really going to debate this again?
For years, the SCC and State Delegates debated the threshold for convention to
primary elections. I was and I am still a supporter of the 60/40
threshold we currently have, despite the fact that I lost getting 40%+
by 2 or 3 votes out of 70 delegates (100% voting) in 2016 and didn't
make it to a primary.
This State Convention there is again a proposal to change the party constitution to 70%. If
it passes, it would not effect the 2018 races Do we still want to
continue this fight?
The 60/40 allowed a challenger to eliminate an incumbent in 2016 for at least 2 Utah House races, including me. I am running again this year and I am not
getting signatures. I am willing to take the risk with the 60/40 again
as I did in 2014 and 2016. I won in 2014 at convention and also won in
the general election. If the threshold had been changed to 70/30, it is
likely that a democrat would have won that year.
Remember
that CMV in 2013 always had more than one demand. It was never just the
threshold. Even though adjusting the threshold would not
have helped Gov. Walker in 2004 or Sen. Bennett in 2010, CMV using Y2
polled the delegates in 2012 and found that the Sen. Bennett would still
not have received 40%+ with the delegates that year either.
(Information released by Quin Monson at the Young Republican Convention)
I wrote this in May 2013. It is still true.
The threshold to avoid a primary is a two way sword.
An 85/15 would make it easier for a weak challenger to get to a primary,
but impossible to eliminate the incumbent without large amounts of
money or fame. That was the Count My Vote / Buy My Vote request
originally. Added to that the eliminating of any kind of multiple round
and you could have 6 candidates in the primary, one of which would
always be the incumbent.
They couldn't get 85/15, so they next tried 75/25. Almost impossible for an incumbent not to get 25% and make it to a primary. Yes, the incumbent is going to have a harder time getting 75%, but if the goal is more primaries that cost more money, it is one step closer to Buy My Vote or Buy My Ads. Add the elimination of the multiple round and you could get 3 or 4 candidates going to the primary. 70/30 allows up to 3 and again makes it harder to eliminate an incumbent.
Yes, the goal of 60/40 may have been to help the incumbents, but after Jason Chaffetz almost won in convention and Bennett and Gov. Walker lost, those that wanted to protect the incumbents realized they made a mistake with the 60/40 and many for years have wanted to switch it back. Two legislators were eliminated at convention this year. And yes, we still have some primaries, but not as many as we get with 2/3 or 70%.
In 2012 Utah, we have primaries: Hatch/Liljenquist, Dougall/Johnson, Swallow/Reyes, McCartney/Valdez, Okerlund/Painter, Vickers/Anderson, Perry/Galvez, Redd/Butterfield, Anderegg/Moore, Handy/Crowder, Macdonald/Bagley, Sagers/McCoy, Kennedy/Nitta, Muniz/Hendrickson, Stratton/Murray, Christofferson/Kane, Greene/Stevens, Layton/Daw, Nelson/Wright, Westwood/Carling, and Crockett/Winder, to name a few. Not every race had a primary nor should it. Most of those were GOP primaries.
Since 2000, 1/2 of all state wide and congressional contested GOP races have gone to primary. 44 races, 30 were contested and 15 went to primary.
Yes a 2/3 threshold would have made a few more primaries, but the risk of an incumbent losing, or someone rich or famous losing would also go down.
Some that spoke for the 2/3 or 70% may believe what they have said, but I totally disagree and many in the SCC and also many of the delegates disagree as well.
I have always said, The 60% threshold to avoid a primary works, allowing a shot of a challenger to eliminate an incumbent and yet requires a challenger to be a strong candidate.
The current system does not protect the incumbent, wealthy or famous. I think that is a good thing. Finely tuned balance. It won today.
(originally posted 18 May 2013)
They couldn't get 85/15, so they next tried 75/25. Almost impossible for an incumbent not to get 25% and make it to a primary. Yes, the incumbent is going to have a harder time getting 75%, but if the goal is more primaries that cost more money, it is one step closer to Buy My Vote or Buy My Ads. Add the elimination of the multiple round and you could get 3 or 4 candidates going to the primary. 70/30 allows up to 3 and again makes it harder to eliminate an incumbent.
Yes, the goal of 60/40 may have been to help the incumbents, but after Jason Chaffetz almost won in convention and Bennett and Gov. Walker lost, those that wanted to protect the incumbents realized they made a mistake with the 60/40 and many for years have wanted to switch it back. Two legislators were eliminated at convention this year. And yes, we still have some primaries, but not as many as we get with 2/3 or 70%.
In 2012 Utah, we have primaries: Hatch/Liljenquist, Dougall/Johnson, Swallow/Reyes, McCartney/Valdez, Okerlund/Painter, Vickers/Anderson, Perry/Galvez, Redd/Butterfield, Anderegg/Moore, Handy/Crowder, Macdonald/Bagley, Sagers/McCoy, Kennedy/Nitta, Muniz/Hendrickson, Stratton/Murray, Christofferson/Kane, Greene/Stevens, Layton/Daw, Nelson/Wright, Westwood/Carling, and Crockett/Winder, to name a few. Not every race had a primary nor should it. Most of those were GOP primaries.
Since 2000, 1/2 of all state wide and congressional contested GOP races have gone to primary. 44 races, 30 were contested and 15 went to primary.
Yes a 2/3 threshold would have made a few more primaries, but the risk of an incumbent losing, or someone rich or famous losing would also go down.
Some that spoke for the 2/3 or 70% may believe what they have said, but I totally disagree and many in the SCC and also many of the delegates disagree as well.
I have always said, The 60% threshold to avoid a primary works, allowing a shot of a challenger to eliminate an incumbent and yet requires a challenger to be a strong candidate.
The current system does not protect the incumbent, wealthy or famous. I think that is a good thing. Finely tuned balance. It won today.
(originally posted 18 May 2013)
Thursday, March 1, 2018
Statement from Utah Republican Party Constitutional Defense Committee
For Immediate Release
Contact: Don Guymon
for Constitutional Defense Committee - Utah Republican Party
Statement from Utah Republican Party Constitutional Defense Committee
Republican leaders clarify intent of special meeting and new bylaw language
Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - Salt Lake City, UT. Don Guymon, spokesperson for the Utah Republican Party Constitutional Defense Committee (“CDC”), released the following statement to correct false information, reported in the news, regarding the purpose and outcome of the Saturday, February 24, 2018 meeting of its governing body, the State Central Committee (SCC):
The SCC meets regularly, and sometimes monthly, as needed, to address Party business, including organizing for caucuses and elections. The 2018 Caucus takes place on Tuesday, March 20. For this reason, in accordance with our rules, the SCC members called a special meeting on Saturday, February 24, to address Caucus preparation, budget issues, and bylaw modifications, including modification of an existing bylaw that has been under discussion since 2013.
State statute authorizes political parties to challenge the candidacy of any candidate who violates party rules.
Additionally, Justice Scalia in the U.S. Supreme Court decision on California Democratic Party vs. Jones stated:
In no area is the political association's right to exclude more important than in its candidate-selection process. That process often determines the party's positions on significant public policy issues, and it is the nominee who is the party's ambassador charged with winning the general electorate over to its views. The First Amendment reserves a special place, and accords a special protection, for that process...because the moment of choosing the party's nominee is the crucial juncture at which the appeal to common principles may be translated into concerted action, and hence to political power…
Since 2015, candidates have been required to certify they will not violate the party rules, but the bylaw lacked enforcement language. Under the new bylaw language, a candidate who willingly files to run, using a method contrary to Republican Party rules, temporarily forfeits membership in the Party, for the duration of the election cycle.
These changes were made in consultation with legal counsel and in compliance with U.S. Supreme Court precedent and Utah Code Section 20A-8-401-(2a) . This Court precedent was confirmed in the Party’s recent successful constitutional challenge to election law changes, which the Utah Legislature passed in 2014 (Senate Bill 54). It is SB54 that is unconstitutional and is the subject of the current lawsuit.
If the Republican Party Executive Committee chooses to enforce this bylaw change, it does not affect any candidate already filed to run, and during the 2018 election cycle, it only applies to U.S. House Districts 1 and 2, so that no already filed candidate will be impacted.
For more information, Contact Don Guymon
[Update: Some additional comments from me]
For a week, prior to the February 24, 2018 SCC meeting, I told backers of the amendment for Bylaws 8, that I would not vote for it as it changed the rules in the middle of the election and could cause my opponent to forfeit his party membership this election. They came back with a narrower change, but I still said no. the next morning, Saturday, the had a new version that didn't directly affect any existing officeholder or candidate and I said I would look at it.
It is hard to fire an attorney you never hired. The questions raised were IF the SCC ever approved him in September. Other questions were if he was working for the party or the chair and if his opinions were for the party or the chair, and what his fee was. It is very possible if the vote was taken at the January meeting the results would have been the same.
There are 3 attorneys helping with the lawsuit. They are still there. The SCC finally was given a chance to consent or not for an Attorney the chair wanted as the party attorney and had been using since last fall without SCC approval. That approval was asked for on February 24 and voted down.
Both 20A-8-101 and 401 say the party did not violate state law by passing the bylaw changes re: membership.
Neither the Utah Supreme Court or the initial federal judge would take away our QPP status because of the party Constitution and Bylaws and the Democrats tried. That is still pending in Denver. Until the party acts, and not just threatens, there is no case.
I specifically stated that the first 2 versions of the bylaw proposal I told them I wouldn't vote for it and gave them nightmare reasons why I would not. When they sent me the last version prior to the meeting that didn't affect any existing office holders or candidates directly, I said I would look at it. I did ask questions at the meeting and was TOLD that the Lt. Gov didn't have the specified authority to remove us from QPP status. They were quoting attorneys not in the room, and Lt. Gov. Spencer Cox memo from 2016. I am not an attorney. I have read and sponsored bills dealing with Title 20A in state code.
The 14th amendment also uses the word State and not Political Party. How did the state allow a pilot program allowing some county clerks to have same day voter registration and not other counties?
I want to give the Utah Policy credit for this update: "Editor's note: A previous version of this article said Mitt Romney would be kicked out of the party because of the bylaw change. The Utah GOP State Central Committee wrote the change in such a way that nearly all of the 2018 candidates would not be affected. We regret the error."
No current 2018 candidates are affected, including Mitt Romney,
For 2018, Only congressional District 1 and 2 where no GOP candidates are currently gathering signatures including Rob Bishop or Chris Stewart.
It is not a new bylaw.
The state party has required, in the past, candidates to state if they agree with the party platform, etc. and if they didn't, what they didn't agree with. Some counties have had that as well. What passed Feb. 24th was that has extended to races not just multi-county, with some teeth to those that don't follow our C&B for elections, with that going into effect for the 2018 election for just the US House Congressional District 1 and 2 races, where no GOP member has filed using signatures at this point.
There is no purity club. Bernie Sanders could apply to run, register as a republican say that he agreed with none of the bylaws and run in 2018 for the 3rd congressional district and get elected if the voters wanted him and if he moved here before he was elected. If he ran in the 2nd this year, and followed the party rules to get elected, and was elected he could. All that was asked re: party platform was to publicly disclose what they agreed with and what they didn't with the party platform. That requirement has existed for years.
There were 6 items on the agenda, and only one was bylaw changes. There was a vote to stop the meeting after the 1st item and that failed, there was a vote to stop after the top 4 items and that failed to pass. Same with after 5 items. The people that wanted to stay, stayed.
Carrie Dickson insisted on creating a proviso for the 2018 election at the bottom vs having the language in the middle of the bylaw. Bob Bernick either doesn't understand that, has been given bad info, or is intentionally misleading. Also, there was no vote on Saturday for the caucus committee as Rob didn't have a list to present. Bob is reporting that was voted on Saturday, where it wasn't.
If you are concerned about the SCC, you do have to realize my State Representative was also elected last year to be a member of the committee, but resigned prior to the first meeting we had. His sister has been a good moderating, win-win, influence on the committee. He has not been involved, one way or the other, even though he could have been.
Some thoughts from others
https://guymonsays.wordpress.com/2018/03/01/the-utah-gop-and-the-first-amendment/
https://youtu.be/8S02ZFpPlpU
Contact: Don Guymon
for Constitutional Defense Committee - Utah Republican Party
Statement from Utah Republican Party Constitutional Defense Committee
Republican leaders clarify intent of special meeting and new bylaw language
Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - Salt Lake City, UT. Don Guymon, spokesperson for the Utah Republican Party Constitutional Defense Committee (“CDC”), released the following statement to correct false information, reported in the news, regarding the purpose and outcome of the Saturday, February 24, 2018 meeting of its governing body, the State Central Committee (SCC):
The SCC meets regularly, and sometimes monthly, as needed, to address Party business, including organizing for caucuses and elections. The 2018 Caucus takes place on Tuesday, March 20. For this reason, in accordance with our rules, the SCC members called a special meeting on Saturday, February 24, to address Caucus preparation, budget issues, and bylaw modifications, including modification of an existing bylaw that has been under discussion since 2013.
State statute authorizes political parties to challenge the candidacy of any candidate who violates party rules.
Additionally, Justice Scalia in the U.S. Supreme Court decision on California Democratic Party vs. Jones stated:
In no area is the political association's right to exclude more important than in its candidate-selection process. That process often determines the party's positions on significant public policy issues, and it is the nominee who is the party's ambassador charged with winning the general electorate over to its views. The First Amendment reserves a special place, and accords a special protection, for that process...because the moment of choosing the party's nominee is the crucial juncture at which the appeal to common principles may be translated into concerted action, and hence to political power…
Since 2015, candidates have been required to certify they will not violate the party rules, but the bylaw lacked enforcement language. Under the new bylaw language, a candidate who willingly files to run, using a method contrary to Republican Party rules, temporarily forfeits membership in the Party, for the duration of the election cycle.
These changes were made in consultation with legal counsel and in compliance with U.S. Supreme Court precedent and Utah Code Section 20A-8-401-(2a) . This Court precedent was confirmed in the Party’s recent successful constitutional challenge to election law changes, which the Utah Legislature passed in 2014 (Senate Bill 54). It is SB54 that is unconstitutional and is the subject of the current lawsuit.
If the Republican Party Executive Committee chooses to enforce this bylaw change, it does not affect any candidate already filed to run, and during the 2018 election cycle, it only applies to U.S. House Districts 1 and 2, so that no already filed candidate will be impacted.
For more information, Contact Don Guymon
[Update: Some additional comments from me]
For a week, prior to the February 24, 2018 SCC meeting, I told backers of the amendment for Bylaws 8, that I would not vote for it as it changed the rules in the middle of the election and could cause my opponent to forfeit his party membership this election. They came back with a narrower change, but I still said no. the next morning, Saturday, the had a new version that didn't directly affect any existing officeholder or candidate and I said I would look at it.
It is hard to fire an attorney you never hired. The questions raised were IF the SCC ever approved him in September. Other questions were if he was working for the party or the chair and if his opinions were for the party or the chair, and what his fee was. It is very possible if the vote was taken at the January meeting the results would have been the same.
There are 3 attorneys helping with the lawsuit. They are still there. The SCC finally was given a chance to consent or not for an Attorney the chair wanted as the party attorney and had been using since last fall without SCC approval. That approval was asked for on February 24 and voted down.
Both 20A-8-101 and 401 say the party did not violate state law by passing the bylaw changes re: membership.
Neither the Utah Supreme Court or the initial federal judge would take away our QPP status because of the party Constitution and Bylaws and the Democrats tried. That is still pending in Denver. Until the party acts, and not just threatens, there is no case.
I specifically stated that the first 2 versions of the bylaw proposal I told them I wouldn't vote for it and gave them nightmare reasons why I would not. When they sent me the last version prior to the meeting that didn't affect any existing office holders or candidates directly, I said I would look at it. I did ask questions at the meeting and was TOLD that the Lt. Gov didn't have the specified authority to remove us from QPP status. They were quoting attorneys not in the room, and Lt. Gov. Spencer Cox memo from 2016. I am not an attorney. I have read and sponsored bills dealing with Title 20A in state code.
The 14th amendment also uses the word State and not Political Party. How did the state allow a pilot program allowing some county clerks to have same day voter registration and not other counties?
I want to give the Utah Policy credit for this update: "Editor's note: A previous version of this article said Mitt Romney would be kicked out of the party because of the bylaw change. The Utah GOP State Central Committee wrote the change in such a way that nearly all of the 2018 candidates would not be affected. We regret the error."
No current 2018 candidates are affected, including Mitt Romney,
For 2018, Only congressional District 1 and 2 where no GOP candidates are currently gathering signatures including Rob Bishop or Chris Stewart.
It is not a new bylaw.
The state party has required, in the past, candidates to state if they agree with the party platform, etc. and if they didn't, what they didn't agree with. Some counties have had that as well. What passed Feb. 24th was that has extended to races not just multi-county, with some teeth to those that don't follow our C&B for elections, with that going into effect for the 2018 election for just the US House Congressional District 1 and 2 races, where no GOP member has filed using signatures at this point.
There is no purity club. Bernie Sanders could apply to run, register as a republican say that he agreed with none of the bylaws and run in 2018 for the 3rd congressional district and get elected if the voters wanted him and if he moved here before he was elected. If he ran in the 2nd this year, and followed the party rules to get elected, and was elected he could. All that was asked re: party platform was to publicly disclose what they agreed with and what they didn't with the party platform. That requirement has existed for years.
There were 6 items on the agenda, and only one was bylaw changes. There was a vote to stop the meeting after the 1st item and that failed, there was a vote to stop after the top 4 items and that failed to pass. Same with after 5 items. The people that wanted to stay, stayed.
Carrie Dickson insisted on creating a proviso for the 2018 election at the bottom vs having the language in the middle of the bylaw. Bob Bernick either doesn't understand that, has been given bad info, or is intentionally misleading. Also, there was no vote on Saturday for the caucus committee as Rob didn't have a list to present. Bob is reporting that was voted on Saturday, where it wasn't.
If you are concerned about the SCC, you do have to realize my State Representative was also elected last year to be a member of the committee, but resigned prior to the first meeting we had. His sister has been a good moderating, win-win, influence on the committee. He has not been involved, one way or the other, even though he could have been.
Some thoughts from others
https://guymonsays.wordpress.com/2018/03/01/the-utah-gop-and-the-first-amendment/
https://youtu.be/8S02ZFpPlpU
Tuesday, June 27, 2017
Chris Herrod is the best candidate for Utah Congressional District 3
I wore Chris Herrod and Deidre Henderson stickers at the special
Congressional District 3 GOP Convention and so I was thrilled one of
them won.
Chris Herrod supported Ted Crus for POTUS. He supports limiting Federal over reach and protecting our freedoms. He believes in the US Constitution and would support that over whoever is President of the US. He married someone from Ukraine and is not a fan of Russia as he lived under Soviet rule for a few years. He has been pro-legal immigration for years. His wife's family came from Muslim upbringing and he isn't prejudiced. I have a few friends that voted for Trump only because Hillary was such a bad candidate. I didn't vote for either.
Chris Herrod supported Ted Crus for POTUS. He supports limiting Federal over reach and protecting our freedoms. He believes in the US Constitution and would support that over whoever is President of the US. He married someone from Ukraine and is not a fan of Russia as he lived under Soviet rule for a few years. He has been pro-legal immigration for years. His wife's family came from Muslim upbringing and he isn't prejudiced. I have a few friends that voted for Trump only because Hillary was such a bad candidate. I didn't vote for either.
Chris Herrod is the best candidate running for Utah's Congressional
District 3 "vacancy". I served with Chris in the Utah Legislature in
2011 and 2012. He cares deeply for this county. He has my full support
and endorsement.
Remember that hundreds of thousands of voters came out to the 2016 caucus meetings including democrats. They elected the tens of thousands of delegates. Democrats picked their nominee using the delegate system. They have no primary. We get a couple of Buy My Ballot Spot candidates that could have just as easily gone straight to the general election if they didn't want to go though the caucus/convention system. That is costing us 3 months more not having 4 representatives in Congress. We could be voting among all candidates in August.
For more information for Chris Herrod, go to
http://herrodforcongress.com/
Remember that hundreds of thousands of voters came out to the 2016 caucus meetings including democrats. They elected the tens of thousands of delegates. Democrats picked their nominee using the delegate system. They have no primary. We get a couple of Buy My Ballot Spot candidates that could have just as easily gone straight to the general election if they didn't want to go though the caucus/convention system. That is costing us 3 months more not having 4 representatives in Congress. We could be voting among all candidates in August.
For more information for Chris Herrod, go to
http://herrodforcongress.com/
Thursday, July 23, 2015
Melvin Nimer Utah GOP Treasurer
Mel Nimer is someone I trust that has the knowledge, experience and
ideas to tackle keeping track of and protecting the Utah Republican Party funds.
Friday, December 20, 2013
The Same Day Ballot for the Neighborhood Caucus Election Republican Meeting
The Same Day Ballot for the 2014 Neighborhood Caucus Election Republican Meeting
It started about a year ago with
some at the Utah Republican State Central Committee (SCC) trying to
figure how to grant an exception or maybe even a proxy vote for some
that couldn't come to the the Neighborhood Caucus Election Meeting.
The
idea of a Proxy Vote was defeated, and it has taken many months to come up
with a Same Day Ballot (SDB) system. It has many protections so it isn't
a proxy vote. The person prints out their own ballot, which has a
number to avoid copying it. They fill out their own ballot that day and
put it in an envelope, seal it, and sign across the seal, so we know it
wasn't someone else. They provide the ballot and copies of their state
ID to whoever is bringing the ballot that allows those receiving it to
check the signature and make sure the person is a registered voter in
the precinct. The ID is given back to the person that brought in the
ballot so we don't have issues with ID theft or party liability for the
ID copies.
It was structured in such a way to allow
the mom who was planning on coming to the neighborhood caucus election
meeting, but her kids got sick to still vote, or the firefighter, for
example, that had to work that night. We want people to come to the
meeting, but things can come up that can't be controlled. The Same Day
Ballot (SDB) is designed to not provide an incentive for people to avoid
the meeting. The person that just had knee surgery that uses a SDB, is
not likely to be able to come, and the SDB will actually increase the
number participating and not decrease it.
Because the
ID with the ballot was given outside the envelope, the party never gets
control of it, and the person selected to deliver the ballot is going
to be a spouse, family member or trusted friend. People will not give a
copy of their ID to someone they don't know. That would make sure
someone representing a campaign didn't try to abuse the system.
We
added a pre-meeting before the Neighborhood Caucus Election Meeting
from 6pm to 7pm and advance registration, to encourage, but not require,
those wanting to run for delegate or precinct chair, etc. to let people
know in advance so those that couldn't come would know who to vote for,
and have time to call them up and ask questions. The SDB allows a write
in vote, so if they know or want someone to be nominated that night,
they can vote for them as well.
The next
concern, which was discussed in Filmore, during the October 26th SCC
meeting, was a limit as to how many of the Same Day Ballots could be
brought in by one person.
Since we live in
Utah, and we also have small rural towns, there are people that are
trusted in each community that could pick up quite a number of the SDB.
The proposal in Fillmore was to limit the number of SDB's a person could
bring in to one (1). That was discussed and rejected. five (5) was a
number discussed, but it wasn't approved either. We wanted to have a
large enough number to make sure the mom or the firefighter could find
someone to bring their SDB in, or if a family got sick, the voters in
the household would turn in their votes, but small enough so as to not
encourage abuse. On Saturday, Dec. 14th, the SCC decided three (3) was
the best number for the limit of SDB's a person could bring in.
Some
have raised concerns that the number 3 would be limiting. In the
September 21st SCC meeting, a resolution titled "Resolution to Increase
Voter Participation and Defend the Utah Neighborhood Election" passed
the committee with no one voting against it, so the majority, and
perhaps all the members of the SCC believe we want increased voter
participation. We had over 110,000 voters come to the Republican
Neighborhood Caucus Election Meeting, and we made improvements so that
number can continue to increase. It has doubled and then doubled again.
We don't know that we will have 250,000 voters show up in 2014, but we
want to be as prepared for that as we can, and we want to hear more from
those running at the same time.
It was
made clear that the limit of 3 would not limit the number of
firefighters that could participate, as they would each have family and
friends that could deliver the ballot for them. It was also make clear
that this limit would not apply to the Same Day Military & Mission
Ballots that are sent to the precinct chair and vice chair. That had
other protections to make sure we know who is voting.
I would be happy to provide more information.
Fred C. Cox, representing Salt Lake County on the Utah Republican State Central Committee.
Thursday, November 21, 2013
5 reasons not to sign their petition
1. The "bill" Count My Vote, or proposed law is flawed, terribly so. Even some of
the strongest supporters admit the legislature will have to fix it if
this mess passes.
We tell public officials to kill these kind of errors in committee, not skip the public hearing, not read the bill and vote to send it to the floor of the legislature to decide if it should pass or not.
That is exactly what Count My Vote is telling people to do. Sign it, unread, and hope everyone realizes next fall it doesn't deliver. They could have amended it but chose not to and by law, can no longer amend the "bill".
2. This proposed law will cost taxpayers millions, $1 Million the first year and almost that every 2 years, with about 1/2 of the unfunded mandate being picked up by the less populous counties, the ones that the same proposed law will cause to be flyover places where the candidates and elected officials won't come anymore.
3. When Utah tried a direct primary in 1937 to 1947, it came with a run off primary, so the majority would elect the nominee. When the voting turn out and the cost drove the public and the media to reject that system - a compromise, caucus/convention and run off primary was created. We have that today. Count My Vote not only removes the nominating for general elections using delegates, it removes the run off primary system we have and nominees will no longer be selected out of a 2 person race.
4. The political royalty sponsors of Count My Vote loved the current system when the turnout to the neighborhood caucus elections meetings (GOP) was about 25,000, but when it exceeded 50,000 and 100,000, they no longer want that system because they no longer have the power. They don't tell you that the same delegates, proposed to be elected by closer to 10,000 attendees will still pick nominees such as the replacement for Spencer Cox.
5. They claim more people will be able to vote. A large percentage of voters will not affiliate to vote in the GOP primary election and those same people will not be able to vote in a "GOP" direct primary under Count My Vote. They will get to pay more as Count My Vote makes sure the parties will not be picking up the tab they currently do, it will be the taxpayers, unaffiliated or not.
Don't sign, just to vote on it later. Do read it. Do find out more. I trust if you actually understand what you will get, you will not sign the Count My Vote / Buy My vote initiative.
We tell public officials to kill these kind of errors in committee, not skip the public hearing, not read the bill and vote to send it to the floor of the legislature to decide if it should pass or not.
That is exactly what Count My Vote is telling people to do. Sign it, unread, and hope everyone realizes next fall it doesn't deliver. They could have amended it but chose not to and by law, can no longer amend the "bill".
2. This proposed law will cost taxpayers millions, $1 Million the first year and almost that every 2 years, with about 1/2 of the unfunded mandate being picked up by the less populous counties, the ones that the same proposed law will cause to be flyover places where the candidates and elected officials won't come anymore.
3. When Utah tried a direct primary in 1937 to 1947, it came with a run off primary, so the majority would elect the nominee. When the voting turn out and the cost drove the public and the media to reject that system - a compromise, caucus/convention and run off primary was created. We have that today. Count My Vote not only removes the nominating for general elections using delegates, it removes the run off primary system we have and nominees will no longer be selected out of a 2 person race.
4. The political royalty sponsors of Count My Vote loved the current system when the turnout to the neighborhood caucus elections meetings (GOP) was about 25,000, but when it exceeded 50,000 and 100,000, they no longer want that system because they no longer have the power. They don't tell you that the same delegates, proposed to be elected by closer to 10,000 attendees will still pick nominees such as the replacement for Spencer Cox.
5. They claim more people will be able to vote. A large percentage of voters will not affiliate to vote in the GOP primary election and those same people will not be able to vote in a "GOP" direct primary under Count My Vote. They will get to pay more as Count My Vote makes sure the parties will not be picking up the tab they currently do, it will be the taxpayers, unaffiliated or not.
Don't sign, just to vote on it later. Do read it. Do find out more. I trust if you actually understand what you will get, you will not sign the Count My Vote / Buy My vote initiative.
Thursday, November 7, 2013
Below is my non legal analysis of the problems with Count My Vote
From Fred C. Cox, former member of the Utah House of Representatives
update, a smaller version of this can be found:
http://www.neighborhoodelection.org/flaws_in_count_my_vote_proposed_legislation
For more blog posts on this subject, see:
http://fairelectionsutah.blogspot.com/
In 2011 and 2012 I had more than 1300 floor votes on bills as a member of the Utah House of Representatives. That doesn't include votes in committees. (if you combined both years, I missed the fewest floor votes of any legislator of both parties and both houses). I was in the Senate Chambers during those 5 of 1302 votes. There were also special sessions, and I didn't miss any of those floor votes).
I have read through in excess of 1000 bills to decide whether or not to vote for them or not. Whether or not you agree with the policy being submitted as Count My Vote or not, as I ask that you vote against it now.
It is my experience that most bills that reach the floor of the house pass. The bad ones are killed in committee. We have had the public hearings on Count My Vote. They (Count My Vote sponsors) have opted not to amend their "bill" or proposed law after the public meetings where they received very little public support. The proposed law stands or fails as written.
In my opinion it fails. Below is my non legal analysis of the problems with Count My Vote. (I am not an attorney) You elect legislators to vote on bills prior to them becoming law. You elect a governor to also verify and sign the bill before it become law. The legislature can override a veto. The public can veto a bill that has less than a 2/3 vote in both houses by referendum.
You are not being asked to veto a current law. You are being asked to make a new law. It has to stand on its own. You don't know if someone else is going to fix it later.
Count My Vote is asking you to sign their "bill". It is over 20 pages. Before you sign it and long before it is to be voted on, You must read it for your self. I hope the following notes help you decide to not to sign the petition and to kill this "bill" before it is to be voted on.
It is my opinion that Count My Vote is poorly drafted. It is my opinion that it creates bad policy and makes our current system worse. Based on that, there is no reason to vote for it, even if you don't like our current system. It doesn't make it better.
My Notes (very rough form, you were warned):
Item #0
They can't amend the "bill" anymore. You must vote on it as it is.
20A-7-204.1 (4)a
Most of the current laws re: the initiatives are at:
http://www.le.utah.gov/code/TITLE20A/htm/20A07_020100.htm
quick stuff is here:
http://elections.utah.gov/election-resources/utah-initiatives
They missed the 3 days prior to public hearing required Lt. Gov. filing deadline per
20A-11-802 (1) (v)
They just filed their financials with the Lt. Gov. but didn't make up the previous one.
Items:
1. They change the status of the Lt. Gov. handling races crossing county lines. See for example lines 186 and 190, 230, etc.
2. They use 20A-6-301 paper ballots which isn't used any more (Maybe San Juan Co).
The reason I even post this one, is I am tripping over one word, "preferred". Currently, there are those that have run for office as unaffiliated and I am thinking this word v "registered" leaves the door open. I would like to get feedback on this prior anyone saying that someone doesn't have to be a registered republican to run as a republican.
Party affiliation is used in statute. Registered Party is used. I can see getting a registered political party affiliation. Preferred political party affiliation is not used, nor is there anything close to it. Preferred affiliation used in the same section only refers to a "Smith Card", requirements.
You will find that in 59-12-102. Smith's cards.
for the signature sheet of the voter signing the petition it uses the term "Party Affiliation of Registered Voter". That is clear enough to make sure that party members sign the petition, with the exception of one very large loop hole:
I think it interesting that line 453 uses the word "or" and 427 uses the word "and" putting it unclear if the person signing the petition needs to be currently registered to vote or just promises under penalty of a A Class A misdemeanor, that they will be registered by the end of March. How will the candidate know that they do that?
[update, Line 453 is designed to be "or". It creates problems however, as discussed below. Line 427 can be "and" as noted, but with the two "or"s on lines 426 it needs to be on 3 separate lines, so it isn't confusing. This is important as this section could make it so some 17 year old future voter is charged with a Class A misdemeanor for trying to help and not realizing in November than in March their plans had changed. This is the section that is supposed to make sure people signing the nominating petition realize the criminal penalty they face for incorrectly signing the nominating petition. In this case the proposed law takes away from the clerk the ability to make it more clear and tells them the exact wording to use. We should evaluate the policy of setting up a teenager to be a criminal . We want to avoid voter fraud, but perhaps another solution should exist.]
"Independents and Unaffiliated voters have said they want Parties to fund their own closed primaries"
CMV does just the opposite. It prohibits parties from doing that, or selecting their own nominees, and requires that be done by the state at the state expense.
Independents and Unaffiliated voters want to vote for any candidate in a primary funded by them. They want the primaries to be "open". Lines 305 to 308 allow a party to let anyone vote in "their" state run primary, or just a specific party and whether or not unaffiliated voters can vote. That is current state law and doesn't change.
While CMV isn't a true California ballot, you are correct that there is no limit to the number of candidates that could show up on your ballot. CMV has made it a little tougher than CA to get on so their might not be quite as many. I could get 100 to sign in my own precinct and someone could do the same in the other 21 precincts and we could get 20 on the primary Republican ballot.
Mr. Owens (sponsor letter op-ed to the SL Tribune) letter is like telling the Utah Legislature it can meet, but only pass resolutions and that it can’t pass laws anymore.
Yes, the caucus convention system would remain, but it couldn’t nominate anyone for public office, except mid term elections.
His argument is pretty deceptive. He needs to realize that any endorsements would not show up on a ballot like they claim. 20A–6-301, where they have put wording in isn’t used anymore. We use electronic voting machines or vote by mail ballots.
Unaffiliated would still not vote in GOP elections. They would pay more to watch.
Who benefits under Count My Vote / Buy My Vote?
out of the $144,000 they just spent, Exoro’s got $110,000 and Donald Dun’s group got $30,000. ie the political consultants.
update, a smaller version of this can be found:
http://www.neighborhoodelection.org/flaws_in_count_my_vote_proposed_legislation
For more blog posts on this subject, see:
http://fairelectionsutah.blogspot.com/
In 2011 and 2012 I had more than 1300 floor votes on bills as a member of the Utah House of Representatives. That doesn't include votes in committees. (if you combined both years, I missed the fewest floor votes of any legislator of both parties and both houses). I was in the Senate Chambers during those 5 of 1302 votes. There were also special sessions, and I didn't miss any of those floor votes).
I have read through in excess of 1000 bills to decide whether or not to vote for them or not. Whether or not you agree with the policy being submitted as Count My Vote or not, as I ask that you vote against it now.
It is my experience that most bills that reach the floor of the house pass. The bad ones are killed in committee. We have had the public hearings on Count My Vote. They (Count My Vote sponsors) have opted not to amend their "bill" or proposed law after the public meetings where they received very little public support. The proposed law stands or fails as written.
In my opinion it fails. Below is my non legal analysis of the problems with Count My Vote. (I am not an attorney) You elect legislators to vote on bills prior to them becoming law. You elect a governor to also verify and sign the bill before it become law. The legislature can override a veto. The public can veto a bill that has less than a 2/3 vote in both houses by referendum.
You are not being asked to veto a current law. You are being asked to make a new law. It has to stand on its own. You don't know if someone else is going to fix it later.
Count My Vote is asking you to sign their "bill". It is over 20 pages. Before you sign it and long before it is to be voted on, You must read it for your self. I hope the following notes help you decide to not to sign the petition and to kill this "bill" before it is to be voted on.
It is my opinion that Count My Vote is poorly drafted. It is my opinion that it creates bad policy and makes our current system worse. Based on that, there is no reason to vote for it, even if you don't like our current system. It doesn't make it better.
My Notes (very rough form, you were warned):
In a nutshell, CMV was drafted by 2 different people that seemed to ignore each other. One tries to strip the party designation away from any party that doesn't play by the new rules and nominates candidates not using the new system and the other person makes sure No One can be on the ballot unless they follow the new rules. If the Party doesn't sign up, none of the candidates will show up with the party designation, but that isn't true as if you get the signatures you are on the ballot for the party you pick. CMV allows the party to decide to opt out or not, but not really.
The unequal 2% barrier that CMV uses would likely fail in court. A Democratic governor candidate would need 2,812 signatures to be a nominee, a Republican would need 13,162. A Unaffiliated Candidate with 1,000 signatures currently and also under Count My Vote would need 1,000 to go straight to the general election.
http://elections.utah.gov/party-and-status
The "bill" Count My Vote, or proposed law is flawed, terribly so. Even some of the strongest supporters admit the legislature will have to fix it if this mess passes.
http://elections.utah.gov/election-resources/initiatives
has the "bill", fiscal note, and public meetings video. compare the slides from the Provo meeting and their current website. You will find they are different and that the public hearings used incorrect and confusing information about their proposal and what we currently have at best. For my opinion on the timing of the public hearings, if you missed them, see:
The unequal 2% barrier that CMV uses would likely fail in court. A Democratic governor candidate would need 2,812 signatures to be a nominee, a Republican would need 13,162. A Unaffiliated Candidate with 1,000 signatures currently and also under Count My Vote would need 1,000 to go straight to the general election.
http://elections.utah.gov/party-and-status
The "bill" Count My Vote, or proposed law is flawed, terribly so. Even some of the strongest supporters admit the legislature will have to fix it if this mess passes.
http://elections.utah.gov/election-resources/initiatives
has the "bill", fiscal note, and public meetings video. compare the slides from the Provo meeting and their current website. You will find they are different and that the public hearings used incorrect and confusing information about their proposal and what we currently have at best. For my opinion on the timing of the public hearings, if you missed them, see:
Item #0
They can't amend the "bill" anymore. You must vote on it as it is.
20A-7-204.1 (4)a
Most of the current laws re: the initiatives are at:
http://www.le.utah.gov/code/TITLE20A/htm/20A07_020100.htm
quick stuff is here:
http://elections.utah.gov/election-resources/utah-initiatives
They missed the 3 days prior to public hearing required Lt. Gov. filing deadline per
20A-11-802 (1) (v)
They just filed their financials with the Lt. Gov. but didn't make up the previous one.
They will be fined $100 for not following the law.
http://disclosures.utah.gov/Search/PublicSearch/FolderDetails/1411317
Problems with the CMV proposed law include: Line numbers are from the CMV "bill". Other references are from state law. You can look any of them up yourself at:
http://disclosures.utah.gov/Search/PublicSearch/FolderDetails/1411317
Problems with the CMV proposed law include: Line numbers are from the CMV "bill". Other references are from state law. You can look any of them up yourself at:
Items:
1. They change the status of the Lt. Gov. handling races crossing county lines. See for example lines 186 and 190, 230, etc.
2. They use 20A-6-301 paper ballots which isn't used any more (Maybe San Juan Co).
We don't use the separate but unequal paper ballots anymore.
See for example lines 112 to 114. Can't forget those candidates we put way over there. :)
Tell me 20A-6-301 violates Fed. Election laws, or the 14th amendment.
3. They let parties opt out but not really. See 100, 101, They repeat is at 129, 130 ,etc. It appears that if we don't play by their rules, (line 305) our party is stripped from the ballot, but they claim if I fill out the petition with signatures I will be on the primary ballot. Line 290 says General Election.
4. They claim an unaffiliated or democratic candidate can't get on our GOP primary ballot. While it is almost clear the petition signers have to be registered party members, or at least will be by the end of March the next year, and will be registered voters, at least by then, It isn't clear that the candidate is. See line 211. The use of preferred affiliation is not defined and is used only in current Utah code to describe Smith' Cards for going shopping.
5. We get to keep the GOP primary election closed, so the unaffiliated will get to watch at home and pay almost $1 Million the first year and $900,000 for the privilege, unless they affiliate. They can do that now.
6. Rookie mistakes with "and" and "or". See line 427, 3rd word "and" and 453, 1st word "or". As we all should know, in a state law, and and or are not the same. You are guilty of X if you are going 65 MPH and driving in Provo vs You are guilty of X if you are going 65 MPH or driving in Provo. In the last case anyone driving in Provo at any speed would be in violation of the law.
[update, Line 453 is designed to be "or". It creates problems however, as discussed below. Line 427 can be "and" as noted, but with the two "or"s on lines 426 it needs to be on 3 separate lines, so it isn't confusing. This is important as this section could make it so some 17 year old future voter is charged with a Class A misdemeanor for trying to help and not realizing in November that in March their plans had changed. This is the section that is supposed to make sure people signing the nominating petition realize the criminal penalty they face for incorrectly signing the nominating petition. In this case the proposed law takes away from the clerk the ability to make it more clear and tells them the exact wording to use. We should evaluate the policy of setting up a teenager to be a criminal . We want to avoid voter fraud, but perhaps another solution should exist.]
7. There is no run off primary election. While the Deseret News in 1946
See for example lines 112 to 114. Can't forget those candidates we put way over there. :)
Tell me 20A-6-301 violates Fed. Election laws, or the 14th amendment.
3. They let parties opt out but not really. See 100, 101, They repeat is at 129, 130 ,etc. It appears that if we don't play by their rules, (line 305) our party is stripped from the ballot, but they claim if I fill out the petition with signatures I will be on the primary ballot. Line 290 says General Election.
4. They claim an unaffiliated or democratic candidate can't get on our GOP primary ballot. While it is almost clear the petition signers have to be registered party members, or at least will be by the end of March the next year, and will be registered voters, at least by then, It isn't clear that the candidate is. See line 211. The use of preferred affiliation is not defined and is used only in current Utah code to describe Smith' Cards for going shopping.
5. We get to keep the GOP primary election closed, so the unaffiliated will get to watch at home and pay almost $1 Million the first year and $900,000 for the privilege, unless they affiliate. They can do that now.
6. Rookie mistakes with "and" and "or". See line 427, 3rd word "and" and 453, 1st word "or". As we all should know, in a state law, and and or are not the same. You are guilty of X if you are going 65 MPH and driving in Provo vs You are guilty of X if you are going 65 MPH or driving in Provo. In the last case anyone driving in Provo at any speed would be in violation of the law.
[update, Line 453 is designed to be "or". It creates problems however, as discussed below. Line 427 can be "and" as noted, but with the two "or"s on lines 426 it needs to be on 3 separate lines, so it isn't confusing. This is important as this section could make it so some 17 year old future voter is charged with a Class A misdemeanor for trying to help and not realizing in November that in March their plans had changed. This is the section that is supposed to make sure people signing the nominating petition realize the criminal penalty they face for incorrectly signing the nominating petition. In this case the proposed law takes away from the clerk the ability to make it more clear and tells them the exact wording to use. We should evaluate the policy of setting up a teenager to be a criminal . We want to avoid voter fraud, but perhaps another solution should exist.]
7. There is no run off primary election. While the Deseret News in 1946
may or may not like what we have today, they
didn't want to just toss out the expensive run off elections. Unlimited candidates for the primary, we could have 20 others in the race and one might
win with just 6% of the vote and not a majority.
8. According to the person that wrote the fiscal note (additional cost to taxpayers if this new law is enacted), I called, about 1/2 of the $1 million will be picked up by the counties, and most of it the smaller counties. It is like a state unfunded mandate, unless the Utah Legislature decides to fund from the state to the counties.
9. Count My Vote had a conference call with the County Clerks prior to the Fiscal Note being released. I don't know if that is like witness tampering or not. If the fiscal note is low by 25%, the legislature can toss Count My Vote out the window if they choose., even if it is signed by the petition and the majority of the votes vote for it. See 20A-7-214 (2).
10. Unlike a typical fiscal note for a Utah Law, no funding is provided for this proposed law. This sounds like what they do in Washington D.C.
11. Former Rep. Spencer J. Cox has a replacement being nominated by delegates selected at our neighborhood caucus election meetings. That system will remain, it is not changed by CMV, there will just be almost no one coming to the neighborhood caucus election meetings if CMV were to pass. They are concerned we don't have enough balanced attendees now, what will happen if CMV were to pass?
12. While 2% isn't a tough number of a state house seat, it is a tough number for state wide races. Much more for GOP candidates and the democratic candidates will need fewer signatures.
13. any party endorsements would not show up on a ballot like they claim . 20A–6-301, where they have put back door loophole wording in isn’t used anymore. We use electronic voting machines or vote by mail ballots. See item 2. I am hearing the Utah Legislature might get rid of 20A–6-301 or replace it in 2014 and if so it won't be there in 2015 if CMV passes. What happens then?
I hope this helps,
PS, they "cheated" as not all of the section in whole changed are included in the proposed law.
8. According to the person that wrote the fiscal note (additional cost to taxpayers if this new law is enacted), I called, about 1/2 of the $1 million will be picked up by the counties, and most of it the smaller counties. It is like a state unfunded mandate, unless the Utah Legislature decides to fund from the state to the counties.
9. Count My Vote had a conference call with the County Clerks prior to the Fiscal Note being released. I don't know if that is like witness tampering or not. If the fiscal note is low by 25%, the legislature can toss Count My Vote out the window if they choose., even if it is signed by the petition and the majority of the votes vote for it. See 20A-7-214 (2).
10. Unlike a typical fiscal note for a Utah Law, no funding is provided for this proposed law. This sounds like what they do in Washington D.C.
11. Former Rep. Spencer J. Cox has a replacement being nominated by delegates selected at our neighborhood caucus election meetings. That system will remain, it is not changed by CMV, there will just be almost no one coming to the neighborhood caucus election meetings if CMV were to pass. They are concerned we don't have enough balanced attendees now, what will happen if CMV were to pass?
12. While 2% isn't a tough number of a state house seat, it is a tough number for state wide races. Much more for GOP candidates and the democratic candidates will need fewer signatures.
13. any party endorsements would not show up on a ballot like they claim . 20A–6-301, where they have put back door loophole wording in isn’t used anymore. We use electronic voting machines or vote by mail ballots. See item 2. I am hearing the Utah Legislature might get rid of 20A–6-301 or replace it in 2014 and if so it won't be there in 2015 if CMV passes. What happens then?
I hope this helps,
PS, they "cheated" as not all of the section in whole changed are included in the proposed law.
The . . . is used. You actually need to read a lot more than 20 pages to see what sections of State law will be changed.
Misc notes:
Lines 209 to 211
I __ declare my candidacy for the office of __ seeking the nomination of the ___ party, which is my preferred political party affiliation.
Currently, a person declares their intention of becoming a candidate for a party. There is no certification when filing required as to what party they belong to, that is up to the political party. In this case, the state would take away the party's ability to control or vet or eliminate any candidate that wants to be their nominee.
Lines 209 to 211 DO NOT state that the ____ party is the party affiliation on their voter registration of the person running, it does have the words "which is my preferred political party affiliation" . I do not believe that is clear.
The person declaring their candidacy for an office, has to get signatures from people that are either now registered to vote or signing they will be registered to vote by 5pm on the final day of March. The people signing have to list their party affiliation of the registered voter. This allows someone that isn't 18 on Nov. 15th of the year before to sign their name and then later register to vote prior to the end of March of the election year.
Is Line 211 clear enough that the person signing to run as a candidate for that party, is a registered member of that party? I don't believe so. It uses the word "preferred" and not "registered". That is splitting hairs for some of the average public, but it isn't for the legislature, or Leg. Research. CMV representatives have specifically used the words Registered in response to questions. CMV uses no such word for the candidate.
Misc notes:
Lines 209 to 211
I __ declare my candidacy for the office of __ seeking the nomination of the ___ party, which is my preferred political party affiliation.
Currently, a person declares their intention of becoming a candidate for a party. There is no certification when filing required as to what party they belong to, that is up to the political party. In this case, the state would take away the party's ability to control or vet or eliminate any candidate that wants to be their nominee.
Lines 209 to 211 DO NOT state that the ____ party is the party affiliation on their voter registration of the person running, it does have the words "which is my preferred political party affiliation" . I do not believe that is clear.
The person declaring their candidacy for an office, has to get signatures from people that are either now registered to vote or signing they will be registered to vote by 5pm on the final day of March. The people signing have to list their party affiliation of the registered voter. This allows someone that isn't 18 on Nov. 15th of the year before to sign their name and then later register to vote prior to the end of March of the election year.
Is Line 211 clear enough that the person signing to run as a candidate for that party, is a registered member of that party? I don't believe so. It uses the word "preferred" and not "registered". That is splitting hairs for some of the average public, but it isn't for the legislature, or Leg. Research. CMV representatives have specifically used the words Registered in response to questions. CMV uses no such word for the candidate.
The reason I even post this one, is I am tripping over one word, "preferred". Currently, there are those that have run for office as unaffiliated and I am thinking this word v "registered" leaves the door open. I would like to get feedback on this prior anyone saying that someone doesn't have to be a registered republican to run as a republican.
Party affiliation is used in statute. Registered Party is used. I can see getting a registered political party affiliation. Preferred political party affiliation is not used, nor is there anything close to it. Preferred affiliation used in the same section only refers to a "Smith Card", requirements.
You will find that in 59-12-102. Smith's cards.
for the signature sheet of the voter signing the petition it uses the term "Party Affiliation of Registered Voter". That is clear enough to make sure that party members sign the petition, with the exception of one very large loop hole:
I think it interesting that line 453 uses the word "or" and 427 uses the word "and" putting it unclear if the person signing the petition needs to be currently registered to vote or just promises under penalty of a A Class A misdemeanor, that they will be registered by the end of March. How will the candidate know that they do that?
[update, Line 453 is designed to be "or". It creates problems however, as discussed below. Line 427 can be "and" as noted, but with the two "or"s on lines 426 it needs to be on 3 separate lines, so it isn't confusing. This is important as this section could make it so some 17 year old future voter is charged with a Class A misdemeanor for trying to help and not realizing in November than in March their plans had changed. This is the section that is supposed to make sure people signing the nominating petition realize the criminal penalty they face for incorrectly signing the nominating petition. In this case the proposed law takes away from the clerk the ability to make it more clear and tells them the exact wording to use. We should evaluate the policy of setting up a teenager to be a criminal . We want to avoid voter fraud, but perhaps another solution should exist.]
"Independents and Unaffiliated voters have said they want Parties to fund their own closed primaries"
CMV does just the opposite. It prohibits parties from doing that, or selecting their own nominees, and requires that be done by the state at the state expense.
Independents and Unaffiliated voters want to vote for any candidate in a primary funded by them. They want the primaries to be "open". Lines 305 to 308 allow a party to let anyone vote in "their" state run primary, or just a specific party and whether or not unaffiliated voters can vote. That is current state law and doesn't change.
While CMV isn't a true California ballot, you are correct that there is no limit to the number of candidates that could show up on your ballot. CMV has made it a little tougher than CA to get on so their might not be quite as many. I could get 100 to sign in my own precinct and someone could do the same in the other 21 precincts and we could get 20 on the primary Republican ballot.
Mr. Owens (sponsor letter op-ed to the SL Tribune) letter is like telling the Utah Legislature it can meet, but only pass resolutions and that it can’t pass laws anymore.
Yes, the caucus convention system would remain, but it couldn’t nominate anyone for public office, except mid term elections.
His argument is pretty deceptive. He needs to realize that any endorsements would not show up on a ballot like they claim. 20A–6-301, where they have put wording in isn’t used anymore. We use electronic voting machines or vote by mail ballots.
Unaffiliated would still not vote in GOP elections. They would pay more to watch.
Who benefits under Count My Vote / Buy My Vote?
out of the $144,000 they just spent, Exoro’s got $110,000 and Donald Dun’s group got $30,000. ie the political consultants.
Mitt Romney just blasted the caucus system because a majority doesn't decide. If you look at item #7 above, Count My Vote takes that away from Utah voters.
For more information on this subject see:
Thursday, October 24, 2013
Why the Sudden Urgency to improve Neighborhood Elections
Why the urgency?
Count My Vote makes mistake after mistake. If they think we are voting on the changes to save their behind, they are wrong.
Since the beginning of the year members of the republican state central committee have been working on trying to tweak the neighborhood caucus election system. A system that has worked well for years where 25,000 came, but the last two meetings it has doubled and then doubled again.
Count My Vote demanded changing the balance and getting rid of multiple round ballots, or changing the balance and taking the meeting out of the meeting. Creating a system that would favor the wealthy, the famous, incumbents and encourage people to stay home and watch Dancing with the Stars.
Of Course the demands were rejected. They still are. That doesn't mean reasonable changes can't be made and will.
The last central committee only one proposal was put on the agenda, one that didn't have a prayer to pass which was known in advance by most of the committee. The other consensus items were not even allowed on the agenda.
The reason for the "emergency" meeting is that those same people that have fought the Count My Vote people since they met in the Alta Club in May of 2010, that have wanted improvements to the system, have demanded the meeting, so we make the changes. If Count My Vote gets some of the issues solved at the same time, fine.
As you know from 2008 to 2010 neighborhood election meeting attendance doubled. From 2010 to 2012, meeting attendance doubled again. There is hope that in 2014, it will double again and 250,000 will attend. I know that The State GOP has a committee that is working to make sure we don't have the same growth problems for 2014 and that the system can handle the volume of those interested and still allow time to meet candidates and ask questions.
New proposals for 2014 include a better system for check in, including optional preregistration. The ability to optionally pre-file to run to represent your neighbors as well. The meeting will be designed to last for 2 hrs. or less, from 7pm to 9pm. There will be a pre-meeting from 6pm to 7pm to allow you to personally meet candidates to represent your neighborhood that have decided to run and for you to ask one on one questions. Even with large groups, changes to make sure members can agree on questions to ask neighborhood representative candidates with more time to hear from them.
I hope you will come again in 2014 and make the meeting better.
At only one time for 10 years in Utah’s history did the state depart from the Neighborhood Election, Caucus and Convention System. In 1937, a powerful democratic state senator convinced enough of the legislature to switch to an open primary. He had had two losses, a US Senate race and also for governor, because the majority of the convention delegates disagreed with his legislative voting record. But he was well known and had money.
Many at the time felt like an open primary was his ticket to the governorship, and he did win. But the change in the system only lasted for a decade. After public and media disillusionment, and even worse voter turnout, Utah restored the Caucus and Convention System. Why go back? in 1946, after almost 10 years of a direct primary with run off, the media and public demanded the return of the Caucus and Convention System to replace the need for a run off election.
Even the Deseret News in 1946 was specific that they didn't want to just eliminate the run off, as that would turn the power over to money. They wanted that every day people would vote at local meetings. That is what we have.
I am not afraid of Count My Vote.
They have made mistake after mistake. Ignoring those prior to the announcement, of their initiative, where they had 25 people stand behind a podium at the capitol and they couldn't figure out for an hour how to attach their sign.
They said they needed $1.5 Million. Then had to loan themselves $50,000 just to hit 1/3 of that. They filed an initiative, that even some of their strongest backers find poorly drafted, with rookie wording mistakes. I have read through over 1000 bills and voted on them. This isn't ready to become law, even if you agreed with it.
They schedule public meetings at noon during a special session of the legislature? In Provo and other locations they used slides that incorrectly calculated less than 60 delegates from all parties control the will of 3 Million.
There were over 110,000 caucus attendees in just the republican meetings alone in 2012 and there were tens of thousands of delegates elected. Yes the slides have now been updated to be more correct, sorta like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. Both sets of slides are online. Look at the ones at the CMV website and the ones shown in Provo on the Lt. Gov. Website. The attendees at the meetings were given worse than spin. If you are going to try to sell your product, at least be honest.
It is going to cost taxpayers about $1,000,000 initially and $900,000 dollars every two years to replace what we have with the Count My Vote / Buy My Vote initiative. We get no run off Election. There is no limit to the number of candidates that could be on the ballot.
Count My Vote even missed their last filing deadline with the Lt. Governor as required by 20A-11-802 (1) (v)
I am just getting started in the mistakes Count My Vote has made. To be continued.
Monday, October 14, 2013
Count My Vote vs Flyover Counties and Towns
Utah's Neighborhood Elections force candidates to pay attention to rural areas
of Utah. Direct primaries encourage candidates to ignore rural areas and
communicate only by paid advertising. A direct primary would create
fly-over areas of Utah that will rarely get to meet their candidates
face to face.
Utah's Neighborhood Elections work to create a balance between population and Counties, similar to what the US Presidential Electoral System is designed to do.
See also:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865588184/My-View-No-caucus-means-fly-over-counties.html
Why keep the US Presidential Electoral System:
The US Constitution provided for a balance between small population states and large ones. This is one of the reasons for the Senate having 2 per state and the House being divided based on population.
The current US Presidential Electoral System keeps part of that concept so that voters in California, New York, and a few others do not decide who is elected, ignoring the rest of the country.
The original system was designed so that the electors nominated two candidates, one not from their state, and unless there was a candidate nominated by the majority of electors, the voting for president out of the top 5 nominees was done by the US House of Representatives, one vote per state. If two candidates received a majority of electors, the House would decide between just the two. Basically, the loser of the top two became the Vice President, who would take over if something happened to the President. The elector college system protected every state from being ignored.
By 1796 and 1800, partly due to political party influence, and because the public didn't want the US House to decide the election a movement to change happened and under the 12th amendment this was changed. One reason was to make sure the President and the Vice President could run together. The change made it so the electors would almost always reach a majority and therefore cast the final vote, and because of that, most states have now required that the elector vote based on which party they represent. Utah requires that an elector be replaced if they do not vote per party. See http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE20A/htm/20A13_030400.htm
Under the current system, Utah having 6 votes instead of 4 gives us a slight edge over population. Utah has decided to have a winner take all system. If Utah were to split our vote, it would carry less weight in the national election, but it would put Utah more in play.
While the current system doesn't work as originally intended, there is still some balance favoring smaller states, just barely enough to encourage candidates to campaign throughout most of the country. Without the US Presidential Electoral System , I believe that would be eliminated and I also believe the cities with the most population would be the locations where campaigning would occur, making the situation of ignoring parts of the country even worse.
Some information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Utah's Neighborhood Elections work to create a balance between population and Counties, similar to what the US Presidential Electoral System is designed to do.
See also:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865588184/My-View-No-caucus-means-fly-over-counties.html
Why keep the US Presidential Electoral System:
The US Constitution provided for a balance between small population states and large ones. This is one of the reasons for the Senate having 2 per state and the House being divided based on population.
The current US Presidential Electoral System keeps part of that concept so that voters in California, New York, and a few others do not decide who is elected, ignoring the rest of the country.
The original system was designed so that the electors nominated two candidates, one not from their state, and unless there was a candidate nominated by the majority of electors, the voting for president out of the top 5 nominees was done by the US House of Representatives, one vote per state. If two candidates received a majority of electors, the House would decide between just the two. Basically, the loser of the top two became the Vice President, who would take over if something happened to the President. The elector college system protected every state from being ignored.
By 1796 and 1800, partly due to political party influence, and because the public didn't want the US House to decide the election a movement to change happened and under the 12th amendment this was changed. One reason was to make sure the President and the Vice President could run together. The change made it so the electors would almost always reach a majority and therefore cast the final vote, and because of that, most states have now required that the elector vote based on which party they represent. Utah requires that an elector be replaced if they do not vote per party. See http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE20A/htm/20A13_030400.htm
Under the current system, Utah having 6 votes instead of 4 gives us a slight edge over population. Utah has decided to have a winner take all system. If Utah were to split our vote, it would carry less weight in the national election, but it would put Utah more in play.
While the current system doesn't work as originally intended, there is still some balance favoring smaller states, just barely enough to encourage candidates to campaign throughout most of the country. Without the US Presidential Electoral System , I believe that would be eliminated and I also believe the cities with the most population would be the locations where campaigning would occur, making the situation of ignoring parts of the country even worse.
Some information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Thursday, September 26, 2013
Changes to the 2014 Utah Republican Neighborhood Election Meeting
As
you know from 2008 to 2010 neighborhood election meeting
attendance doubled. From 2010 to 2012, meeting attendance doubled again.
There is hope that in 2014, it will double again and 250,000 will attend. I know that The State
GOP has a committee that is working to make sure we don't have the same
growth problems for 2014 and that the system can handle the volume of
those interested and still allow time to meet candidates and ask
questions.
New proposals for 2014 include a better system for check
in, including optional preregistration. The ability to optionally pre-file to run
to represent your neighbors as well. The meeting will be designed to last for 2 hrs. or less, from
7pm to 9pm. There will be a pre-meeting from 6pm to 7pm to allow you to
personally meet candidates to represent your neighborhood that have
decided to run and for you to ask one on one questions. Even with large groups,
changes to make sure members can agree on questions to ask neighborhood
representative candidates with more time to hear from them.
I hope you will come again in 2014 and make the meeting better.
Tuesday, September 10, 2013
Fair Elections Utah Help us fight the Count My Vote or Buy My Vote initiative
Fair
Elections Utah
We call upon Citizens of Utah , the Utah Legislature, and Political Parties in Utah to protect the Utah Neighborhood Election, Caucus and Convention Candidate Nomination Process.
We have a system that that does NOT favor the incumbent, the wealthy or the famous. This is a good thing, and should be preserved.
The Neighborhood Election and Convention system in Utah is the best way to make sure a grassroots process can win over large amounts of money. It is the only way someone with $100,000 can go against someone with $2 million in election funds.
We want neighbors discussing the best candidates and finding ways to improve this state and the nation. If the system is changed, we would be dropping off votes, but not meeting and discussing candidates and issues. That is what is wrong with Washington, D.C. They don’t listen to each other in a meeting. They watch from their offices. We need to change that, not perpetuate it.
We already have a "bypass" system, filing as an unaffiliated candidate. A candidate can go straight to the general election ballot. Someone who doesn't think they can win if vetted by average citizens asking one on one questions can still run and spend their money. Why should they be a political party nominee if they are going to bypass their political party?
At only one time for 10 years in Utah’s history did the state depart from the Neighborhood Election, Caucus and Convention System. In 1937, a powerful democratic state senator convinced enough of the legislature to switch to an open primary. He had had two losses, a US Senate race and also for governor, because the majority of the convention delegates disagreed with his legislative voting record. But he was well known and had money.
Many at the time felt like an open primary was his ticket to the governorship, and he did win. But the change in the system only lasted for a decade. After public and media disillusionment, and even worse voter turnout, Utah restored the Caucus and Convention System. Why go back?
Our current problem with voter turnout is it has not kept up with the population increases. The voter turnout keeps going up but not as fast as the population. Some of that is the younger voters, where Utah has a larger percentage of them and they aren't, as a group, as involved. We need to educate those moving in and not understanding our system.
Many citizens who attend their neighborhood elections and caucus meeting become interested in politics and get involved in their communities, the state and the nation. They meet and help candidates become elected. Some then later become candidates. This should be encouraged through education.
The system and the experience attending the meetings can always be improved, but the “Count My Vote” initiative isn't the way to do it. Any changes to the system the political parties use to determine their nominees should be determined by the political parties.
Fair Elections Utah. Help us fight the "Count My Vote", or "Buy My Vote" initiative.
We call upon Citizens of Utah , the Utah Legislature, and Political Parties in Utah to protect the Utah Neighborhood Election, Caucus and Convention Candidate Nomination Process.
We have a system that that does NOT favor the incumbent, the wealthy or the famous. This is a good thing, and should be preserved.
The Neighborhood Election and Convention system in Utah is the best way to make sure a grassroots process can win over large amounts of money. It is the only way someone with $100,000 can go against someone with $2 million in election funds.
We want neighbors discussing the best candidates and finding ways to improve this state and the nation. If the system is changed, we would be dropping off votes, but not meeting and discussing candidates and issues. That is what is wrong with Washington, D.C. They don’t listen to each other in a meeting. They watch from their offices. We need to change that, not perpetuate it.
We already have a "bypass" system, filing as an unaffiliated candidate. A candidate can go straight to the general election ballot. Someone who doesn't think they can win if vetted by average citizens asking one on one questions can still run and spend their money. Why should they be a political party nominee if they are going to bypass their political party?
At only one time for 10 years in Utah’s history did the state depart from the Neighborhood Election, Caucus and Convention System. In 1937, a powerful democratic state senator convinced enough of the legislature to switch to an open primary. He had had two losses, a US Senate race and also for governor, because the majority of the convention delegates disagreed with his legislative voting record. But he was well known and had money.
Many at the time felt like an open primary was his ticket to the governorship, and he did win. But the change in the system only lasted for a decade. After public and media disillusionment, and even worse voter turnout, Utah restored the Caucus and Convention System. Why go back?
Our current problem with voter turnout is it has not kept up with the population increases. The voter turnout keeps going up but not as fast as the population. Some of that is the younger voters, where Utah has a larger percentage of them and they aren't, as a group, as involved. We need to educate those moving in and not understanding our system.
Many citizens who attend their neighborhood elections and caucus meeting become interested in politics and get involved in their communities, the state and the nation. They meet and help candidates become elected. Some then later become candidates. This should be encouraged through education.
The system and the experience attending the meetings can always be improved, but the “Count My Vote” initiative isn't the way to do it. Any changes to the system the political parties use to determine their nominees should be determined by the political parties.
Fair Elections Utah. Help us fight the "Count My Vote", or "Buy My Vote" initiative.
Monday, July 29, 2013
Fair Elections in Utah vs Count My Vote
The caucus & convention system in Utah is the best way to make sure a
grassroots process can win over large amounts of money. It is the only way
someone with $100,000 can go against someone with $2 million in election
funds.
We have a system that that does NOT favor the incumbent, wealthy or famous. This is a good thing.
Our problem with voter turnout is it has not kept up with the population increase. The voter turnout keeps going up but not as fast as the population. Some of that is the younger voters, where Utah has a larger percentage of them and they aren't, as a group, as involved. Also those moving in and not understanding our system.
We already have a "bypass" system, filing as an unaffiliated candidate. You go straight to the general. Someone doesn't think they can win if vetted by average citizens asking one on one questions, can run and spend the money. Why should they be a party nominee if they are going to bypass the party?
If you change the way our Utah primary's work, you could have two republicans in the general election ballot (or two democrats).
Bypassing the caucus/convention system will not create more participation. There are 4,000 state delegates and many more county delegates that spend countless hours vetting candidates to be on the ballot. They are selected by those that attend the neighborhood election caucus meeting. The current one-on-one candidate vetting by delegates cannot be done well any other way.
When people realize this Count My Vote initiative will give them less of a chance to participate but give media and power brokers more power, they will not sign any initiative. This is a power grab and it isn't by the neighbors you elect as delegates.
If you are going to run as a Democratic candidate, you have to comply with their rules. If you are going to run as a Republican, you have to comply with their rules. If you don't like those rules, you can run as unaffiliated, independent or as a third-party candidate. Count My Vote is attempting to change all party rules by changing state laws by initiative, thus bypassing the political parties and the Legislature.
Who gets to pick the people that show up on the ballot? It is the voters through the caucus system. The candidates get to decide if they are going to run and each of us vote to have them vetted. We put the best ones we have that volunteered to run on the ballot. One of the reasons we get involved in the caucus system is to have a say as to who is on the ballot.
If we didn't have the system we have, it would be the power brokers that would get to decide. They are the ones trying to get rid of the caucus.
Keep Fair Elections in Utah, keep the caucus and convention system
For more information, see:
http://www.fairelectionsutah.com/
We have a system that that does NOT favor the incumbent, wealthy or famous. This is a good thing.
Our problem with voter turnout is it has not kept up with the population increase. The voter turnout keeps going up but not as fast as the population. Some of that is the younger voters, where Utah has a larger percentage of them and they aren't, as a group, as involved. Also those moving in and not understanding our system.
We already have a "bypass" system, filing as an unaffiliated candidate. You go straight to the general. Someone doesn't think they can win if vetted by average citizens asking one on one questions, can run and spend the money. Why should they be a party nominee if they are going to bypass the party?
If you change the way our Utah primary's work, you could have two republicans in the general election ballot (or two democrats).
Bypassing the caucus/convention system will not create more participation. There are 4,000 state delegates and many more county delegates that spend countless hours vetting candidates to be on the ballot. They are selected by those that attend the neighborhood election caucus meeting. The current one-on-one candidate vetting by delegates cannot be done well any other way.
When people realize this Count My Vote initiative will give them less of a chance to participate but give media and power brokers more power, they will not sign any initiative. This is a power grab and it isn't by the neighbors you elect as delegates.
If you are going to run as a Democratic candidate, you have to comply with their rules. If you are going to run as a Republican, you have to comply with their rules. If you don't like those rules, you can run as unaffiliated, independent or as a third-party candidate. Count My Vote is attempting to change all party rules by changing state laws by initiative, thus bypassing the political parties and the Legislature.
Who gets to pick the people that show up on the ballot? It is the voters through the caucus system. The candidates get to decide if they are going to run and each of us vote to have them vetted. We put the best ones we have that volunteered to run on the ballot. One of the reasons we get involved in the caucus system is to have a say as to who is on the ballot.
If we didn't have the system we have, it would be the power brokers that would get to decide. They are the ones trying to get rid of the caucus.
Keep Fair Elections in Utah, keep the caucus and convention system
For more information, see:
http://www.fairelectionsutah.com/
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